Christians, how do you deal with the bible's perspective of being gay?

[kimi]

pls m not fighting, dnt instigate a fire that's not there

 

 

Yes ma'am! :D LOL

[Calllaris]

In this post, I will be using a lot of 'you', etc. This is to make 'it' easier readable. I do not speak to any one person but I will adress the contents of a post I was tagged in above

**********

You see, I'm not amazed by most of these assumptions by 'Christians' who says that because you are gay, you are not a true child of God. Most of these professing christians are scripturally illiterate, with their pastors who has brainwashed them over time to the extent they're too lazy to study. For their pastors, they just feel free to make up stuff AS IF the Bible says it and we're all supposed to accept their opinion as authoritative. "That worked for you guys for a lot of years, until gay people started speaking up and saying, Wait a minute. That's not what the Bible says"

I don't really want to take anyone on a journey they might not be ready for and one I am not being paid for. This is an intellectual property. Yet I will explain since I was tagged

I have learned by experience that:

It is impossible to reason a woman out of an opinion she was never reasoned into.

Join me:

Lev 20:13: please read Lev 17:7 for context. Moses IS talking about prostitution and worshipping false gods. Chapter 18 then lists specific offenses.

"They must no longer offer any of their sacrifices to the goat idols to whom they prostitute themselves. This is to be a lasting ordinance for them and for the generations to come.'" Lev 17:7 NIV

"They are no longer to slaughter their sacrifices to the goat demons, with whom they have been committing prostitution. This will be a perpetual statute for you throughout your generations." ISV

Rom 1:26: I've written on this above

For 1cor 6:9-11, 1tim 1:9-10

(Read my opinion below)

Every verse used to condemn gays is in the context of temple prostitution, using sex to worship false gods. THAT is what God condemns, not being gay or lesbian or bisexual etc

The confusion about temple prostitutes is because you are not a student of history. We need to read more. Expand our knowledge base and stop assuming we know it all because we read an English translation of the Bible.

Temple prostitutes were linked to pagan temples and pagan places of worship, NOT the Jewish tabernacle and certainly not the Jewish temple, since the Jewish temple would not be built until about 400 years after Moses wrote the Pentateuch.

PS the word homosexual was invented in the 1800's, so the word is never in original Gospels, Torah, etc

[Hawken]

In the Bible, some things are clear and others are not because the Bible wasn't written in a language that we all speak now. This is why priests study Hebrew and Latin in school; they were the original language of the bible. I believe we should all struggle to find God in our own way and do our best because God will never judge, at least not the way that we do. To love our neighbor as we love ourself was the ultimate commandment and as long as we can do that, we would have done our best. Many people take pride in looking for what is and isn't sin while forgetting to create a personal relationship with God and living their life in a way that is pleasing to him. You find God in unexpected places, unexpected people and unexpected religions because God is bigger than we can ever possibly imagine. The ways of God are not the ways of men so it is safe to say that God will not judge us by the standards that we think or expect. Things change,. The only constant in life is change and Gods word. So we have to remember that the books of the bible of which plenty are missing are just translations of old books and manuscripts. And year in, year out new discoveries are made(or at least made public) and the bible is some times revised and that will not stop any time soon. Human research that ultimately lead to discoveries of man made things will not answer our questions or set us at ease. If you want to find peace or answers, go to God. Every other channel will only lead to more questions. (or not hehehe)

 

Do you know that the same word used to describe Eve in the beginning that was translated to "helpmate" (our patriarchal society has conveniently tuned it to helper=servant=house girl) was also used to describe God later in the bible? Makes one wonder how many more things like this there are out there.

[Calllaris]

Mathew 19:

By citing mathew 19 ... I believe your attempt is to make us all come to a conclusion biblically that same sex sexual relations are always outside the marriage covenant?

That from mathew 19: 4 - 6 you draw your conclusion that Christ intended for heterosexual marriage as the only model of marriage accepted by him?

These above are your opinions based on your presuppositions about male-female Complementarity in Genesis 1:27 and 2:24. But this Your opinion actually differs from what the verse actually say.

The Pharisees did not ask Jesus if "same sex sexual relations are always outside the marriage covenant." That passage was simply about divorce.

Your interpretation substitutes your opinion - something Jesus didn't say - for what Jesus actually said. You are trying to teach your opinion - something Jesus did not say - as absolute truth. Obviously that is a false way of interpreting scripture.

Saying that Jesus has just defined marriage as a male man to a female woman, or assuming that this was how the men to whom He was speaking understood it is wrong

This conclusion is not at all what Jesus actually said. The Jewish men to whom Jesus spoke did not define marriage as one man with one woman for life. When Jesus cites Genesis 2:24, by no means did Jesus or Jewish men understand Genesis 2:24 as prohibiting polygamy.

We know Complementarity (one man with one woman for life) is not God's IRON CLAD rule for all marriages because scripture makes exceptions for other situations like (1) polygamy and (2) divorce because of fornication. The fact that there are clearly stated Biblical exceptions to Complementarity proves your absolutist view is wrong.

It also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered. This belief is based on 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 where the principle of partnership is stated.

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

I believe scripture is clear that the Jewish men He addressed did not understand Him to be prohibiting polygamy. There is no way Jesus intended His words to convey the meaning you give them - that the only marriage acceptable to God is one man with one woman. Here's how we know that.

a. The first polygamous marriage is recorded in the Bible in Genesis 4:19, only 44 verses after the marriage passage in Genesis 2:24.

b. God and Moses, in Deuteronomy 21:15-17, made provision in the Law for polygamous marriages. This provision is never described by Jesus or any human author of scripture as accommodating human sinfulness, yet Jesus did describe divorce as sinful, Matt 5:32, 19:***-7, Mark 10:11-12.

Why do so many heterosexual preachers harp on the "sin" of homosexuality while ignoring the divorce epidemic in their own churches (sometimes in their own lives)? That is "straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel."

c. Many heroes of the faith from the bible practised polygamy their entire adult lives yet scripture does not condemn them as living in sin. The nation of Israel sprang from Jacob's polygamous marriage with four women.

God is not an absolute Complementarian. In plainer words, God does not agree with your absolutist view and never states your absolutist view in the Bible.

God never encourages us to believe that the only marriage acceptable to Him is a one man with one woman marriage like Adam and Eve. Isn't it time we repented and lined up with God's view instead of championing our own opinion?

d. Jehovah Himself affirmed polygamy through His prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:7-8.

"And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

-And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."

-At the point in time when Jehovah gave additional wives into David's bosom, David already had at least seven wives whose names are given: Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital, Eglah, 2 Samuel ***:2-5, Michal, v. 13.

-Because God affirmed polygamy, that is clear testimony from God that He does not agree with your opinion that one man with one woman is the only marriage relationship God will bless.

e. The Holy Spirit affirms polygamy by inference in 2 Chronicles 24:2-***.

"And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest. And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters."

Do not teach absolute Complementarity - one man with one woman for life - as the only marriage paradigm God will bless.

Instead the orthodox Jewish position affirmed and blessed polygamy. Abraham, father of the faithful and friend of God, was a polygamist, Genesis 16:***-4, who also fathered many children by concubines, Genesis 25:6.

Jacob, whose sons formed the twelve tribes of Israel, was a polygamist. God Himself decided that Jacob's offspring from four wives would become the nation of Israel.

On this point too, citing mathew 19 as a conclusion is historically inaccurate. There is no scriptural evidence that any early Christian who heard Jesus speak in person or who read Matthew 19 understood Jesus to be outlawing polygamy when He spoke of "two becoming one."

Events in Matthew 19 occurred around AD 29. 1 Timothy was written around AD 62 so there is at least a 33 year gap between Jesus' statement on divorce and Paul's statements in 1 Timothy ***.

"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife" -1 Tim ***:2

"Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife" -1 Tim ***:12

If Jesus intended to teach absolute Complementarity, that the ONLY acceptable marriage is one man with one woman for life, and if His Jewish listeners and early Christians understood that to be His teaching, then why did the Holy Spirit and Paul feel it necessary to point out that bishops and deacons may only have one wife?

If Jewish and Christian orthodoxy already understood that, there is no reason for the Holy Spirit and Paul to mention that having more than one wife was a deal-breaker for a bishop or a deacon.

The fact is, some first century Jews and Christians practiced polygamy because polygamy was never forbidden in scripture for anyone except bishops and deacons.

I will conclude by saying - I still haven't seen produced verses from the scriptures which IN CONTEXT addresses same sex marriage yet many conclude based on scripture taken out of context, that same sex marriage is never permissible.

What those who assume or quote mathew 19 as an argument against gays seem to have done is re-purpose a passage in which Jesus rebukes heterosexual Jewish men for their heterosexual divorce practices as if Jesus was really making a negative statement about gay marriage.

Let's be weary that in our zeal to champion our opinion, we wont' step into the sandals of the scribes and Pharisees, "making the word of God of none effect by our (anti-gay) views." Mark 7:13

The Pharisees did NOT ask Jesus if marriage is only between a man and a woman.

[dupsy007]

So why dont you change?

 

meant i can't change who i am.just saw what i wrote, but it doesn't mean the bible ain't clear about this matter.we are who we are finish.we try to live our lives the right way, and we should stop trying to bend the bible to suit us.lets just live religion out of this.

[Patricia]

1)“In the beginning, God made Adam and EVE, not Adam and Steve, nor Eve and Jane.” Anti-gay Christian ministers have used this as a crux to propagate the myth that homosexuality is "unnatural."

While the Bible in Genesis tells us that God made “male and female,” does this really mean that all males and all females need to end up with opposite sex partners?

When talking about "what's natural," in the beginning, the first humans did not wear prescription glasses to see, use wheelchairs to get around, or attach prosthetic limbs to enhance mobility. Are all of those aspects of humanity "unnatural"? (2) Genesis 19: 1-13 “Sodom and Gomorrah's destruction:”Many anti-gay Christian ministers use this passage to say that this is an example of God’s wrath against homosexuality...as if the men of Sodom were all gay, and all trying to "be gay with" these male angels.

Historians and sociologists tell us that gang rape was a very common form of brutal humiliation of the subjects, in the ancient Western world. The Sodomite men did not come to Lot’s house to have monogamous, committed, loving relationships with the male angels residing there. They came to rape these angels. (***) THEN…there’s Leviticus 18:22 “Mosaic Law Prohibitions” and Leviticus 20:13. in this passages where gay sex is condemned and punished, so is eating shrimp, crop co-mingling, eating rabbit, wearing linen and wool at the same time, and eating raw meat. So if you’re gonna be a Biblical literalist, you might as well start sewing your own clothes and becoming a vegetarian. (4)Examples of gay/lesbian couples are Ruth/Naomi, David/Jonathan.... (5)Matthew 19: 4-5 and Matthew 19: 11-12 “Jesus Speaks of Marriage:"

The Scripture:

Verse 4,5: “Jesus answered, 'Have you not read that the One who made them at the beginning made them male and female,' and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh”? Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate'.”

Verse 11,12: “Jesus replied, 'Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it. Here, Jesus first says “eunuchs born that way” are exempt from heterosexual marriage. Since eunuchs are supposed not have “relations” with female heirs, and these eunuchs were born without attraction to woman, gays, bisexuals, and lesbians should use Jesus Christ’s exemption of “innate eunuchs” from heterosexual matrimony to speak for all gay people. In essence, here, Jesus Christ tells his disciples that people born without the innate attraction to the opposite sex should not marry people of the opposite sex. Lastly I Say Only God can judge us all....

[Skills]

I laughed some I must say...

 

No fighting please... different things work for different people. Whatever makes you sleep at night mehn!

 

Hahahaha

 

@FlyJ haa! Come and put out the inferno you instigated o...

 

Sleeky... I see you... ;)/>/> ;)/>/>

.. Errrmmm....sleeky is not here!..she's gone for bible studies class. #innocentgurl# you are blessed!

[kimi]

Hahahahahahaha! Yeah right! @ bible study.lmfao! Mifled did give a hint about the sort of things you could be up to ;)

 

You're an adult lav; there's nothing to be absolutely shy about :D hahahaha

[fairy]

Calla.. you have done your research... I'm so glad we finally know these things. I'm a Christian and I believe that I will not be judged for having a loving relationship with another person irrespective of gender.

[fairy]

Calla to throw more light on what you said which indeed is hitting the nail on the head (really good straightforward stuff)... you mentioned sleeping with other species. the Bible mentioned something about sleeping with strange flesh. the bible wasn't referring to two men in loving relationship but rather to the point in time when angels inherited the earth, had sexual intercourse with humans and begot giants. Calla has said it all. all she's said are in accordance with my research and notes. I'm a proud lesbian. I am a proud Christian. I am a gay child of God.

[Fummy]

We are all sinners, everyone of us . It is stated in the bible that we all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God .

 

My take of this issue is this: I have refused to see homosexuality as a different sin from other sins, lies will take you to hell, gossiping will, killing will. There's no big or small sin.

I believe homosexuality is a sin but then what if it isn't? The bible has clearly stated that any sexual relationship that isn't in the confines of marriage is a sin, so is infidelity to your marriage partner. So even if homosexuality isn't a sin, can we say having sex and unholy thoughts towards our partners aren't sins too?

 

I always have this argument when I talk to my friends about this, when they try to castigate gays, it hurts me when these people are far worse in character, some people will end up going to hell just because they hate gays . If you read the bible well, you'd realize how hard, as in how very hard it is to make heaven. Being nice won't get you to heaven, it truly takes living a holy life and the grace of God.

 

I am gay and I am a Christian, I struggle with sin just like most Christians out there, although homosexuality is a sin, I do not think it's a bigger or smaller sin to other sins on the basis of Religion . Aside religion, I do not understand why people won't respect a person's decision to be gay, like it isn't your business . I still don't understand the reason why homosexuality should be a crime in Nigeria. I don't understand why religion should interfere with my basic human rights, why shouldn't I be with whoever I want? On what basis is homosexuality a crime in Nigeria? What if I am not a Christian or muslim? Should religion be used to deny me of my human rights? If only Nigerians are truly religious, child marriage still takes place in the north protected by Religion , haaa. I just don't understand why religion should interfere with lawmaking, it's all hypocrisy .

[scarlet]

On 10/2/2015 at 10:02 PM, Hawken said:

 

So why dont you change?

On 10/2/2015 at 0:58 PM, Abystacy said:

As a christian, I have wrestled with how to reconcile my “Christian” faith with desire to have the same opportunity to pursue happiness and fulfillment as every other person in the world . It’s my belief that we are all children of God.” I have found peace within to accept and believe that God loves me gay or not. God is love and that love so beautiful cannot be wrong. We should be more concerned and mindful of our personal relationships to people around us, how we treat other, be of pure heart and love our neighbors as we love ourselves, be just and patient. That’s what I believe. Having said that, I’m still gonna go further to emphasis on this. It’s true that “Bible” tells us that homosexuality is a sin. It also tells us that many other behaviors such as lustful thought, cursing, and persecution of others are sins. The bible tells us that all sins are equal. No sin is greater than the other. The bible tells us that we are all sinners. The bible DOES NOT tell us that we are to ostracize, marginalize, or persecute gay people. It is morally indefensible for Christian people to participate in such behavior or stand idly by while such behavior occurs.

 

When it comes to the case of homosexuality, it's that person's life. Let them live it. They are not killing anybody or committing harsh crimes, they just want to find love like everybody else in the world. We're not the ones to judge, that's God's job, so let Him deal with it. God said that we are supposed to love one another, yet no one seems to have a grasp on that concept. And for the Christians out there who say that we're supposed to lead homosexuals to Christ. Do you think that by doing that then they will magically become a heterosexual? Homosexuality is not some disease you can cure it with some treatment and religion." It's not some disease or illness, it's who this person is.

Imagine if homosexuality was the norm and heterosexuality was the minority. Would you want someone to make you try and be something you're not? Just because you are minority, doesn't make you less of a human. People have no authority to regulate behaviors that have no direct, measurable, negative effect on them.

Now the question is; Out of all the sin in the world, why choose this "sin" to pick on and ignore all the other sin? Why have “Christian’s ”established homosexuality as as the red line whose crossing implies complete social decay?

I’m not going to turn a blind eye and deny that according to the Bible homosexuality is a sin. Either am I going to pick a clobber in the “Bible” that suits me better just to justify my perspective because to do so is to fight an impossible battle - the Bible is clear when it states homosexuality is a sin. However, taking this fact as the Bible's only word regarding homosexuality is pretty darn shortsighted.

 

Don’t fall victim of people especially Christians giving us the biblical references. Same old , same old "man shall not lie with man" verses. It seems they 've all forgotten that with that same logic, everyone's going to Hell.

Do we all know “That” mixed fabric in our clothes? “The” tassels on our cloaks?, not being a virgin before marriage shit?, Lies? Slander?, Envy?, Malicious act?, Fornication?, Stealing? Adultery? Sin or not? It's quite funny. So according to “Christians” with their biblical references, we're all burning in Hell, correct? Naive.

 

We “Christians” are always hiding under umbrella of Christianity, blindly picking and choosing pieces of the “Bible” that benefits our cause to try and make ourselves look more worthy. If that's what religion is all about then that is nothing I will ever affiliate with.

Like I said, gay or not, people who love the same sex like me, do exactly as do as every other Christians regardless of whatever references they is. They love. It is no different.

 

How would people like to be judged throughout life because of the person they have feelings for, or have vital decisions made in their lives or be deprived of basic human rights just because of what they do in and out of their bedrooms.

 

They can dislike it, disagree with it and find it distasteful all they like, as is anyone's right to have an opinion, but if they don't like who we are, then they just have to deal with it. People should learn to leave their religion and prejudices aside and love. I could go on for hours and hours, but I'll cut to the conclusion: Christians should be celebrating along with everybody else in accordance with the teachings of God in the Bible- that we should love all God's children, no matter what. So let’s stop the charade and be honest. In the end love recognizes no difference.

 

The prayer of st.Francis comes to  heart here. '' lord grant me the strength to accept the things i cannot change. and i guess being gay is one of those things sadly. 

beautifully written. thank you 

 

   

 

[dequeen]

The serenity prayer. Thanks for reminding me of it, i just sent it to a friend now.

[Farida]

Thank God I'm an Atheist  😂😂