Hawken Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Written by Zamara Perri “A real butch doesn’t wear dresses. A real stud doesn’t wear make-up. A real tomboi doesn’t date other tombois. A real masculine woman pays all the bills. A real tomboi doesn’t cry—only bitches do that.” Hanging around the black lesbian community, I’ve heard all of these things and more. And these ideas are dangerous and harmful. They are pretty much the same ideas that are central to the strong black woman myth and pretty much do the same thing to black lesbians who are more masculine—deny them their femininity, womanhood, humanity and agency. I think black lesbian butches have it the hardest of any other minority group on the planet. They often cannot hide who they are. Because of their appearance, they daily deal with racist and homophobic harassment from men and women in the workplace, streets, our own communities and in their own homes. Yes, we in the black lesbian community add to the stress that black butches face everyday. And sometimes the guiltiest offenders are those of us who are their femme partners. My partner and I shared an intimate moment over the weekend where she told me that her six-year long relationship with her ex was pretty much a fraud. Why? Her femme partner wouldn’t allow her to be anything but the strong provider. As a tomboi who loved working out, she was seen as the “male” presence in the relationship. She wasn’t allowed to be soft. She wasn’t allowed to be weak, be sensitive, or hint at having feminine needs. In short, as a butch she wasn’t allowed to be woman. When I met my partner, we acknowledged that we most likely would not have been attracted to each other had we both not changed. I wanted someone sweet and sensitive. She needed a woman who would let her cry. We both wanted comfort and softness and that’s what we have in each other. The Expectations If your partner cannot be herself with the person who supposedly loves her the most, how can you build true intimacy? We force our black masculine of center women to conform to certain “male” standards and basically give them the hard side eye when they deviate from the script. I see it all the time and I’ve also participated in the shaming and side eyeing. This concern is central to the recently released documentary The Same Difference. Black butches are weighed down by our expectations. We expect black dominant lesbians to only date feminine women, god forgive them if they date another dominant woman, wear make up or a dress. If a black stud decides to carry a child, then she must not be really gay. Black butches just can’t win. We sometimes expect them to do all the giving because they like wearing pants or can rock a Caesar. We think that they couldn’t possibly want anything in return except maybe sex and the satisfaction of having a pretty femme on her arms. And don’t let me get started on how she should like sex. I had a friend, Angela, who was new in the life. She was quite feminine until she started dating women. She was hardly recognizable when we went to her wedding. Angela’s fiancée required that Angela dress in male clothing and provide for her and her four kids. And this woman who was new to the lifestyle and still figuring herself out, did it. Privately she told me that she wasn’t entirely comfortable dressing that way, but knew this was the only way to keep the woman she loved. But like I said, I’ve participated in expecting previous aggressive partners to act only in the way I deemed sufficiently butch. I’ve also dated a woman who was an absolute tomboi. She wore make-up and I found that so strange. I also dated a woman who was struggling financially even though she worked every day. She was embarrassed that I made more money than she did. Part of the embarrassment stemmed from her being a butch and feeling like she should pay for everything. I have a friend who is a butch who is currently dealing with cancer. I’ve watched several people I love deal with this disease and it ripped their lives apart. But my butch friend is barely acknowledging that this is a scary time for her. Instead she is acting like it’s no big deal because she needs to be the strong butch. But I doubt that’s how she is feeling on the inside. Then again I have no right to tell her how to feel or act. Overall, I would love it if we simply gave each other a freaking break instead of projecting ridiculous gender expectations on each other. Most importantly, I would love to see more black lesbians accept the butches we love for who they are—100 percent women. Let’s stop the madness, y’all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abystacy Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 All these labels are not but crap. Love shouldn't be labeled. Love who you love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calllaris Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The butch/ femme trait is in the 'heart', not looks. Yet, most of the extreme expectations on the butch trait are those placed on butches by themselves. Be whatever is good for your personality and emotions. The most 'popular given' for butches is that they are pleasure providing in the bedroom than seeking, yet that is not a 'proven given'. Isn't sex about mutual pleasure? I know butches who are soft, there is even a terninology asuch. Some femmes don't even talk, getting to know what they are feeling is like pulling teeth. That's why there's a pop notion "femmes in street, butch in sheet' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dequeen Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Butches mostly put these labels on themselves. I have met butches who insisted I refer to them as 'sir, oga, guy' etc. I have met butches who refused to let me touch them during sex , comments like "my orgasm comes from making you cum!" its very annoying, to say the least. I have met butches who refused to let me pay for anything when I was with them, even if the expenses were unplanned on their part. All I know though is that you are a lady to me first , female, before whatever label you put on yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abystacy Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Yea a lot of Nigerian butches,who call themselves "Tomboys" are sadly in this glorified labels by their own default. Sometimes i laugh my ass off when they say things like I'm the guy,I think like a guy and act like one or sadly refer themselves as Bro, Nigga and all the shitty slang out there,annoyingly some don't get naked under the sheet, like WTF they seriously think thats gonna work with me.(not that they are actually good in bed anyways #shootme). News Alert,incase they don't know that behind all the baggy,saggy label or no label clothes is a breast and a p**sy. And nothing is gonna change that. Like the previous poster said.. Sex is suppose to be about mutual pleasure. And Do me, I do you kind of partnership, oh well except for the Pillow Princesses and Queens.... Life will be much easier and much more enjoyable without all that ridiculous expectations or tags on themselves. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calllaris Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Butches mostly put these labels on themselves. I have met butches who insisted I refer to them as 'sir, oga, guy' etc. I have met butches who refused to let me touch them during sex , comments like "my orgasm comes from making you cum!" its very annoying, to say the least. I have met butches who refused to let me pay for anything when I was with them, even if the expenses were unplanned on their part. All I know though is that you are a lady to me first , female, before whatever label you put on yourself. Hilarious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawken Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Lool please say the one's you have been with were not good in bed not "they". @Abystacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abystacy Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Hahaha. .. No offense but that's a general view. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawken Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 General what? This is the first time i'm hearing this tbh. Lets do a poll then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abystacy Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Lol. We are actually diverting from the point of discussion here. Maybe a poll on its own will be alright. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iris Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yea a lot of Nigerian butches,who call themselves "Tomboys" are sadly in this glorified labels by their own default. Sometimes i laugh my ass off when they say things like I'm the guy,I think like a guy and act like one or sadly refer themselves as Bro, Nigga and all the shitty slang out there,annoyingly some don't get naked under the sheet, like WTF they seriously think thats gonna work with me.(not that they are actually good in bed anyways #shootme). News Alert,incase they don't know that behind all the baggy,saggy label or no label clothes is a breast and a p**sy. And nothing is gonna change that. Like the previous poster said.. Sex is suppose to be about mutual pleasure. And Do me, I do you kind of partnership, oh well except for the Pillow Princesses and Queens.... Life will be much easier and much more enjoyable without all that ridiculous expectations or tags on themselves. .. You have written that the female reproductive organ is what conforms our identity not the clothes we put on. lf so then, do you think any of these should be a point in question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iris Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Butches mostly put these labels on themselves. I have met butches who insisted I refer to them as 'sir, oga, guy' etc. I have met butches who refused to let me touch them during sex , comments like "my orgasm comes from making you cum!" its very annoying, to say the least. I have met butches who refused to let me pay for anything when I was with them, even if the expenses were unplanned on their part. All I know though is that you are a lady to me first , female, before whatever label you put on yourself. Hahahahaha. You must be incredibly 'tomboy-aware'. A guru. Are you a master of all? You must be talking from the experience of an experienced person. Pls, no offense. I've seen the poll. I know your point isn't presumptuous. But then you're just funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iris Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Written by Zamara Perri “A real butch doesn’t wear dresses. A real stud doesn’t wear make-up. A real tomboi doesn’t date other tombois. A real masculine woman pays all the bills. A real tomboi doesn’t cry—only bitches do that.” Hanging around the black lesbian community, I’ve heard all of these things and more. And these ideas are dangerous and harmful. They are pretty much the same ideas that are central to the strong black woman myth and pretty much do the same thing to black lesbians who are more masculine—deny them their femininity, womanhood, humanity and agency. I think black lesbian butches have it the hardest of any other minority group on the planet. They often cannot hide who they are. Because of their appearance, they daily deal with racist and homophobic harassment from men and women in the workplace, streets, our own communities and in their own homes. Yes, we in the black lesbian community add to the stress that black butches face everyday. And sometimes the guiltiest offenders are those of us who are their femme partners. My partner and I shared an intimate moment over the weekend where she told me that her six-year long relationship with her ex was pretty much a fraud. Why? Her femme partner wouldn’t allow her to be anything but the strong provider. As a tomboi who loved working out, she was seen as the “male” presence in the relationship. She wasn’t allowed to be soft. She wasn’t allowed to be weak, be sensitive, or hint at having feminine needs. In short, as a butch she wasn’t allowed to be woman. When I met my partner, we acknowledged that we most likely would not have been attracted to each other had we both not changed. I wanted someone sweet and sensitive. She needed a woman who would let her cry. We both wanted comfort and softness and that’s what we have in each other. The Expectations If your partner cannot be herself with the person who supposedly loves her the most, how can you build true intimacy? We force our black masculine of center women to conform to certain “male” standards and basically give them the hard side eye when they deviate from the script. I see it all the time and I’ve also participated in the shaming and side eyeing. This concern is central to the recently released documentary The Same Difference. Black butches are weighed down by our expectations. We expect black dominant lesbians to only date feminine women, god forgive them if they date another dominant woman, wear make up or a dress. If a black stud decides to carry a child, then she must not be really gay. Black butches just can’t win. We sometimes expect them to do all the giving because they like wearing pants or can rock a Caesar. We think that they couldn’t possibly want anything in return except maybe sex and the satisfaction of having a pretty femme on her arms. And don’t let me get started on how she should like sex. I had a friend, Angela, who was new in the life. She was quite feminine until she started dating women. She was hardly recognizable when we went to her wedding. Angela’s fiancée required that Angela dress in male clothing and provide for her and her four kids. And this woman who was new to the lifestyle and still figuring herself out, did it. Privately she told me that she wasn’t entirely comfortable dressing that way, but knew this was the only way to keep the woman she loved. But like I said, I’ve participated in expecting previous aggressive partners to act only in the way I deemed sufficiently butch. I’ve also dated a woman who was an absolute tomboi. She wore make-up and I found that so strange. I also dated a woman who was struggling financially even though she worked every day. She was embarrassed that I made more money than she did. Part of the embarrassment stemmed from her being a butch and feeling like she should pay for everything. I have a friend who is a butch who is currently dealing with cancer. I’ve watched several people I love deal with this disease and it ripped their lives apart. But my butch friend is barely acknowledging that this is a scary time for her. Instead she is acting like it’s no big deal because she needs to be the strong butch. But I doubt that’s how she is feeling on the inside. Then again I have no right to tell her how to feel or act. Overall, I would love it if we simply gave each other a freaking break instead of projecting ridiculous gender expectations on each other. Most importantly, I would love to see more black lesbians accept the butches we love for who they are—100 percent women. Let’s stop the madness, y’all. Tomboys can date one another. Nobody helps you decide who you date. You make that choice yourself. Anybody can cry. There's no gender specificity as to who should even though we all know tomboys are not men. Who are we kidding? Who pays the bills? You both pay your own bills. Nobody from outside your home will help you do that. But when you begin to have scruples over who should pay for what, then you may have other serious coupling problems than you're both willing to admit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawken Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hahahahaha. You must be incredibly 'tomboy-aware'. A guru. Are you a master of all? You must be talking from the experience of an experienced person. Pls, no offense. I've seen the poll. I know your point isn't presumptuous. But then you're just funny. "You must be talking from the experience of an experienced person" LMAO my chesttt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpl384 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 @dequeen,ONLY YOUUUU?? LOL Butches mostly put these labels on themselves. I have met butches who insisted I refer to them as 'sir, oga, guy' etc. I have met butches who refused to let me touch them during sex , comments like "my orgasm comes from making you cum!" its very annoying, to say the least. I have met butches who refused to let me pay for anything when I was with them, even if the expenses were unplanned on their part. All I know though is that you are a lady to me first , female, before whatever label you put on yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fummy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Yea a lot of Nigerian butches,who call themselves "Tomboys" are sadly in this glorified labels by their own default. Sometimes i laugh my ass off when they say things like I'm the guy,I think like a guy and act like one or sadly refer themselves as Bro, Nigga and all the shitty slang out there,annoyingly some don't get naked under the sheet, like WTF they seriously think thats gonna work with me.(not that they are actually good in bed anyways #shootme). News Alert,incase they don't know that behind all the baggy,saggy label or no label clothes is a breast and a p**sy. And nothing is gonna change that. Like the previous poster said.. Sex is suppose to be about mutual pleasure. And Do me, I do you kind of partnership, oh well except for the Pillow Princesses and Queens.... Life will be much easier and much more enjoyable without all that ridiculous expectations or tags on themselves. .. Loooool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators FlyJ Posted September 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted September 30, 2015 Yea a lot of Nigerian butches,who call themselves "Tomboys" are sadly in this glorified labels by their own default. Sometimes i laugh my ass off when they say things like I'm the guy,I think like a guy and act like one or sadly refer themselves as Bro, Nigga and all the shitty slang out there,annoyingly some don't get naked under the sheet, like WTF they seriously think thats gonna work with me.(not that they are actually good in bed anyways #shootme). News Alert,incase they don't know that behind all the baggy,saggy label or no label clothes is a breast and a p**sy. And nothing is gonna change that. Like the previous poster said.. Sex is suppose to be about mutual pleasure. And Do me, I do you kind of partnership, oh well except for the Pillow Princesses and Queens.... Life will be much easier and much more enjoyable without all that ridiculous expectations or tags on themselves. .. Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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