QUORA THREAD

[Hawken]

What is something someone who has never been poor wouldn’t understand?

Answered by Allen Lobo for QUORA

How poverty tragically makes the soul hard and even plainly cruel.

Poverty is anything but a breeder of virtue.

This answer will not be comforting.

Tell me, have any of you ever read the story “The Blind Man” by Guy de Maupassant?

It is a very disturbing tale but it struck a chord in my heart because I have known these, they run in my blood.

It is something which needs to be said.

This apotheosis of poverty, of this sentimentalizing it as the spring of virtue is so far removed from the grim reality that only the well-fed will indulge in such nonsense.

My own father has often said to me

“Philosophy is good when you first have a full stomach.”

I can take the liberty of speaking on this ugly aspect, given my own stock and unenviable bloodline in terms of these counts, my ancestors being a mix of small-time rice peasants and cab drivers. I take neither pride nor shame in that.

All four of my grandparents were born peasants in what was then one of the poorest nations on the planet. India.

But their lives then took different courses.

In particular those of my two grandmothers.

My mother’s mother, Alice.

My father’s mother, Letizia.

(Yes, those were their actual names, we’re Catholic and the names are typically Western after the names of saints).

These two women, their attitudes to life and even their own children were in stark contrast. And so reflective of their stations in life.

Alice was “lucky” in a sense to marry a relatively prosperous man. Albeit that grandpa was a widower and more than twice her age in his late thirties (she was just fourteen then). She moved to the city (Mumbai) and experienced a middle class life until poverty then befell them. But it made her a softer and kinder woman

But Letizia? This strikingly beautiful woman was fortunate enough to marry my other grandfather at a later age compared to Alice, but she stayed in that little village and experienced the harsh life of a peasant right until her fifties.

She had five sons and showed a level of favoritism for each based on their relative stations of wealth.

And this wasn’t merely at one static point, the favorite son changed over time (four of the five) as their fortunes rose or fell relative to the other brothers.

It isn’t nice.

It was so brazen to watch a mother favor her own blood based on their monetary levels.

My father remained dedicated to her, I never once heard him speak harshly to her, but she minced no words in making it known how little she thought of him (and us) while we remained poor. And I remember asking my mother at least on a couple of occasions

“How can Dad love his mother so much despite knowing how materialistic she is?”

My mother had said to me

“Allen, there is no curse in this world as wretched as being poor. The poor must quietly suffer all manner of insults, to be spoken of as human trash. So don’t be so quick to judge her, you do not know what kind of times she has seen, she is what persistent poverty makes of people.”

You know, even in smaller aspects the differences are unmistakable.

One of those which I somehow find quite striking is the attitude towards pets.

When I visit the village where my father grew up, it is disturbing how the dogs are disposable. How they are so uncared for that there is no pain felt when they die tragically.

A few years ago one of them was carried away to her death in the night by a leopard, then another one died by falling into an open well, his bloated body found after days.

There was barely any sadness, they were replaced like machines.

It is not merely callous but plainly discomforting how no tears are shed at the death of these loyal dogs who will serve their masters with no question.

Let me not overstate this because it’s not as if they are cruel to them, it’s just that their lives mean nothing. Why would that be surprising in such a place where life for even humans is hard that they wouldn’t give two shits about an animal?

You know, I remember once walking as a little boy through the fields with my uncle (my father’s oldest brother), who is a farmer still. Our biggest dog “Robbie” among four followed us and when my uncle ordered him to go back to the house to stand guard, the dog barked and bares his teeth in defiance.

My uncle literally took the thick tree stick (used to walk through those fields to hit or kill any snakes) and struck Robbie right on the face without hesitation, that big canine bled and a tooth was knocked out.

This SOB was huge and frankly a bully who was feared in that community. My hair stood on end in fear if he attacked us but he simply then whimpered and quietly went back to the house to stand at guard as ordered.

And I asked my uncle whether he wasn’t at least a bit scared that he might turn on him, he had replied

“What?! If he so much as even tried that, I will walk to the house, take my rifle and shoot him dead!”

---

In their defense, I grew up poor but never went hungry. But they did, a lot of the time. When you are at the mercy of the weather as farmers, it’s a throw of the dice. There is a reason why the men in my family including my father grew up with skills to hunt, because it was a way to “hedge their bets”, and supplement nutrition if the rain gods frowned upon them in any year.

And the level of communal cohesiveness in such peasant communities is something which most souls would hardly believe.

It is a safe bet to say that these are far less cultured or humane than my mother’s side of the family who are largely urban.

Then in contrast, I know that if any harm were to befall me, these souls will be the first by my bedside. Blood means everything to them.

But it is far from the romantic notion which a lot of Westerners and rich people have about poverty breeding empathy.

The irony is that Letizia often had contempt for the poor.

It is disturbing how hard and hungry life had made her.

I remember even in medical school, I had classmates who were poor and one of them once said to me

“I can imagine a man who grew prosperous being charitable, but a poor man is less likely to be.”

I can go on mentioning more examples but I think this is enough.

And how now my compatriots here in the highest echelons in the corporate world in America are often surprised and even sometimes repelled by my raw outlook at life and this dark view of human nature.

I know I won’t change. It is in my bones, I take comfort that my children who will grow rich will then be kinder and more generous humans. And I know they will view me one day in the same fashion of derision as I viewed Letizia.

Poverty erodes the soul.

It makes you see and experience things which harden you in a fashion that is plainly Darwinian.

And how I HATE these romantic notions. This glorification of it as a fountain of humility which the well-meaning but ignorant rich and kind souls often express.

They don’t know what it is to watch your blood be spat into metaphorically speaking, to have the very first prayer in life which you remember as a child be for god to give your parents a little more money.

And what level of derision it makes me feel when I hear people say that money does not matter. How I know that if my family had had more of it, persons like my grandmother would have been gentler.

What poverty does to people is something the rich can comprehend.

But what these kinder and more charitable souls will find hard to wrap their heads around is on what poverty makes of people.

 

[Txunamy]

Wow. I totally enjoyed this. Very interesting read, I wish right now that its like a 124 page Book 😁 That's how much I enjoyed it

[Hawken]

8 hours ago, Txunamy said:

Wow. I totally enjoyed this. Very interesting read, I wish right now that its like a 124 page Book 😁 That's how much I enjoyed it

It made me sad because it is so true... We are where we are right now because a large % of the populace are poor and hungry.

A few weeks ago, a thief was caught in my neigbours compound. His cries of being innocent fell on deaf ears. No one was listening to him, he got a thorough beating before been taken to the police. I stayed in front of my apartment and listened but after a while I left because I couldn't stand the crying anymore.

Thing is both compounds had been getting robbed and burgled for a while so I could understand their anger. I even had to start taking my gen in because of it but I still felt bad. I knew the motherf***ker was a thief (his story didn't add up) but I still felt bad.

Now on Friday, for the second time in 6 months, the transformer on my street was robbed 😂 the last time it happened, NEPA left us in darkness for almost a month. And then it was just cables that were stolen oh. Now, everything that could be stolen was stolen 😆. I dunno why I find it funny but I do.

Poverty is really a bad thing.

[Txunamy]

6 hours ago, Hawken said:

It made me sad because it is so true... We are where we are right now because a large % of the populace are poor and hungry.

A few weeks ago, a thief was caught in my neigbours compound. His cries of being innocent fell on deaf ears. No one was listening to him, he got a thorough beating before been taken to the police. I stayed in front of my apartment and listened but after a while I left because I couldn't stand the crying anymore.

Thing is both compounds had been getting robbed and burgled for a while so I could understand their anger. I even had to start taking my gen in because of it but I still felt bad. I knew the motherf***ker was a thief (his story didn't add up) but I still felt bad.

Now on Friday, for the second time in 6 months, the transformer on my street was robbed 😂 the last time it happened, NEPA left us in darkness for almost a month. And then it was just cables that were stolen oh. Now, everything that could be stolen was stolen 😆. I dunno why I find it funny but I do.

Poverty is really a bad thing.

Poverty is bad, but poverty is not enough to make people steal. There are peole who are facing  difficulties but they don't go around stealing. You can be poor but still have virtues. 

Stealing is unacceptable in my books,  I don't care what situation you  were born in, or whatever, if you steal, its because you want to No matter your current situation. 

Methinks,  people steal because they greedy and lazy.  You see that thief you taking about? Tell him to go to a building site and carry 20 blocks a day for 2k or 1,500 and watch him turn it down.  They greedy and lazy and just want fast money.  The saying "There is dignity in labor"  doesn't sit well with them. 

[Hawken]

3 hours ago, Txunamy said:

Poverty is bad, but poverty is not enough to make people steal. There are peole who are facing  difficulties but they don't go around stealing. You can be poor but still have virtues. 

Stealing is unacceptable in my books,  I don't care what situation you  were born in, or whatever, if you steal, its because you want to No matter your current situation. 

Methinks,  people steal because they greedy and lazy.  You see that thief you taking about? Tell him to go to a building site and carry 20 blocks a day for 2k or 1,500 and watch him turn it down.  They greedy and lazy and just want fast money.  The saying "There is dignity in labor"  doesn't sit well with them. 

Stealing isnt okay but people will do anything to survive. The article was about that. Poverty rids you of your morals or conscience. So while its a no go in your books, given the opportunity a lot of poor people will steal. If that wasn't the case, corruption wouldn't be so ingrained in the society we have today. There is no single(I use this loosely because there has to be a few at the very least : (  ) organization in this country, private or public in which taking and offering bribes isn't a thing. Down to the gateman.

Dignity in labour. Have you ever done physical labour to eat? Or perhaps been at a place in life in which that was your only option?/I think not 😀. Also, keep in mind that if this labourous work was as readily available as we like to think, we actually wouldn't be this poor.

Meanwhile there are countries adjusting their laws to accommodate " stealing for survival". Italy have already gone ahead to say stealing(food only though) to survive is not a crime. Other countries will soon follow suit because the human need to survive will always trump morals.

If your enemy had to absolutely choose, would she rather steal to survive or beg to survive? Curious.

[Txunamy]

2 hours ago, Hawken said:

Stealing isnt okay but people will do anything to survive. The article was about that. Poverty rids you of your morals or conscience. So while its a no go in your books, given the opportunity a lot of poor people will steal. If that wasn't the case, corruption wouldn't be so ingrained in the society we have today. There is no single(I use this loosely because there has to be a few at the very least : (  ) organization in this country, private or public in which taking and offering bribes isn't a thing. Down to the gateman.

Dignity in labour. Have you ever done physical labour to eat? Or perhaps been at a place in life in which that was your only option?/I think not 😀. Also, keep in mind that if this labourous work was as readily available as we like to think, we actually wouldn't be this poor.

Meanwhile there are countries adjusting their laws to accommodate " stealing for survival". Italy have already gone ahead to say stealing(food only though) to survive is not a crime. Other countries will soon follow suit because the human need to survive will always trump morals.

If your enemy had to absolutely choose, would she rather steal to survive or beg to survive? Curious.

Hahahaha. I won't answer that. Let's just agree to disagree 😁

Why do you think I haven't done physical labour to eat? 😀

[Hawken]

16 hours ago, Txunamy said:

Hahahaha. I won't answer that. Let's just agree to disagree 😁

Why do you think I haven't done physical labour to eat? 😀

Lol, well that was presumptuous of me, so have you?

[Txunamy]

5 hours ago, Hawken said:

Lol, well that was presumptuous of me, so have you?

No Buddy, I haven't.. 😁 But I can understand. 

[Hawken]

2 hours ago, Txunamy said:

No Buddy, I haven't.. 😁 But I can understand. 

😒 na so

 

[Txunamy]

1 hour ago, Hawken said:

😒 na so

 

Lol. 

[Mimy]

Reading through Alphabet survey thread, almost everyone believes ghosts are real and it got me thinking (though not entirely surprise lol) so I did a mini research. 

If you believe in ghosts, you're not alone. Cultures all around the world believe in spirits that survive death to live in another realm. In fact, ghosts are among the most widely believed of paranormal phenomenon. 

There are many scientific explanations for ghost sightings. Ghost. By: Jordi Carrasco. Flickr.

The process by which one experiences something that isn’t there is called misperceived self-representation. So what else might induce this, besides carbon monoxide poisoning, brain damage, or an episode related to mental illness? Well, several things actually. There is a condition called sleep paralysis for one, also known as waking dreams. This affects around 8% of the population. It usually occurs in the twilight hours of the morning, when one is between a waking and dreaming state. You can’t move your body and sometimes experience visual hallucinations. Grief also tends to increase the chances of a ghostly encounter. Psychologists say it might be a way for the mind to process and deal with loss. Usually, the person they see is a comforting figure who appears serene.

Another ghost-inducing phenomenon is called infrasound. This is a vibration that occurs below our normal range of hearing. That’s below 20 hertz (Hz). Certain machinery (like engines), whales, and extreme weather can all cause infrasound.

Some studies suggest that it can result in symptoms including feelings of depression, the chills, and the sneaking suspicion that someone is watching you. According to Hayden Planetarium director and astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, infrasound at 18 Hz vibrates at such a rate that the eye can pick it up, which might cause visual hallucinations.

So if you or someone you know claims to have seen a ghost, believe them. But also, look for what evidence or phenomenon might be behind the sighting. You could end up finding a faulty lightbulb was the culprit all along.

                             ***

Since the dawn of mankind, people have claimed to have been visited by ghosts, spirits and demons.

Coincidentally, the majority of people will say that their paranormal experience had occurred in the dead of night.

Paranormal experiences has nothing to do with ghosts, but to do with one’s sleep patterns.

Professor of Psychology at Goldsmiths University, Alice Gregory, believes there are several ways in which sleep disruption can be confused with ghouls.

One of the ways is through sleep paralysis – when you reach the deep sleep state, or REM state, where you become paralysed as to not act out your dreams.

However, around eight percent of people retain some form of consciousness when they are in an REM state so it seems as if their dreams are transferred into real life and it could be misinterpreted as seeing people and things which are not actually there.

Another possible explanation is something called exploding head syndrome where a loud bang is heard while you are drifting off, but there is no explanation for it.

Prof Gregory says in an article for The Conversation: “When we fall asleep, the reticular formation of the brainstem (a part of our brain involved in consciousness) typically starts to inhibit our ability to move, see and hear things.

When we experience a ‘bang’ in our sleep this might be because of a delay in this process. Instead of the reticular formation shutting down the auditory neurons, they might fire at once.

Our hope is that scientific explanations of paranormal experiences might help others by lowering anxiety. Decreasing anxiety has also been hypothesised as a potential method by which to reduce sleep paralysis.” 

[Hawken]

Just now, Mimy said:

Our hope is that scientific explanations of paranormal experiences might help others by lowering anxiety. Decreasing anxiety has also been hypothesised as a potential method by which to reduce sleep paralysis.” 

I have to grudgingly agree with the above. Sleep paralysis reduced for me when i found out what they actually were. I used to have them pretty regularly since when i was a child. At one point even up to once a week.. It was scary stuff but i never had hallucinations.

[Mimy]

14 hours ago, Hawken said:

I have to grudgingly agree with the above. Sleep paralysis reduced for me when i found out what they actually were. I used to have them pretty regularly since when i was a child. At one point even up to once a week.. It was scary stuff but i never had hallucinations.

This is true for me too. Ever since I read about sleep paralysis and discovered it a form of sleeping disorder, I never experienced it again. Really, a better understanding help decrease anxiety. That shit was really scary to the point I dreaded sleep. 

[Hawken]

35 minutes ago, Mimy said:

This is true for me too. Ever since I read about sleep paralysis and discovered it a form of sleeping disorder, I never experienced it again. Really, a better understanding help decrease anxiety. That shit was really scary to the point I dreaded sleep. 

It sure does