Yay or Nay on the F word: FEMINISM

[Althena]

It's no secret that the word feminism has been bastardised by men, and some women. In the past 20 years in, people have actively been running a campaign to cloud, change, misconstrue and demean feminism. It has even been turned into an insult by plenty people. But for clarity, a feminist is a person who believes in the social, political, economic and ideological equality of everyone, regardless of their sex. Or more simply, a feminist believes women deserve all the perks and freedoms that we have traditionally saved only for men.

In Nigeria, especially in our generation, most people get their information from twitter. And on the twittervers, being a feminist is akin to being a killer, a man hater, a lesbian (ha, ha!), a husband stabber, hater of cooking, children, religion, custom, and everything holy. Basically, people have equated feminism with misogyny instead of a simple call for equality. It is so bad, that women have had to try and differentiate themselves from 'those bitter feminists' and say things like "I am a humanist' or 'I believe in human rights not just the rights of women', plainly allowing those who hate feminism to define it, and not learning about it on their own. 

Granted, there are many feminists that are ANGRY. And anger is very valid in response to the injustice women face, which people don't want us to discuss in polite company. As the famous bumper stickers go, 'If you are not outraged, then you are not paying attention' (the original from Mother Jones actually says 'If you are QUEER and not angry in 1992, you are not paying attention.') But curiously, most people that talk about angry feminist are the ones who don't ask why, because they are interested in silence not a solution to the root cause. It is people like that who are also quick to say that queer people are 'shoving/forcing their lifestyles in their face'.

But anyways, here is my question (finally!): Do the folks on NL identify as feminists (if yes, why?) and are there those that don't identify as feminists (if so, why?)

[Chilee]

I am a feminist and I believe that the different genders have specific needs that they need to bloom🌸; hence I do not particularly view feminism as the "struggle" for equality between the sexes, cos to think of it; I really do not want to be equal to a man - all that rage, anger,  suppressing emotions, and using power as a tool for oppression! (I know there are perks too bhet...)🤪

Talk about access to education for everyone regardless of their gender; period poverty or poverty itself has kept a lot of young girls out of school. It shouldn't be the case 😔
Equal pay; I shouldn't earn less cos I'm a womxn 💰Bodily autonomy; I should have the right to choose to participate in any sexual activity or not. There's more...🤔

Oh and agency; womxn should get to make their own choices - choose how they want to spend their time, the things they want to talk about, etc😁 

Like there's so much to be angry about to be honest but we can back this anger up with little efforts; sponsor a girl in school, donate pads, teach girls to use their voice, support womxn, etc. 👩‍❤️‍💋‍👩
 

[Hawken]

This topic always annoys me because I feel like it really is black and white. The subjugation of women is obviously systemic and obviously detrimental to society as a whole.

If you are a woman and aren't a feminist, it's either you aren't paying attention or you believe you have some form of social currency that protects you (so you're just going to keep your head down and mind your business. Well LOL 😐 because misogyny can and will find you and will happen to you) OR you have accepted your lot as "less than" in life and that's even worse.

I knew I was a feminist before I knew what the word was. I saw the way women around me were treated and I decided "will never be me". I saw my brothers enjoy more autonomy and freedom than I did and I just knew I would train my kids differently.

I identify as feminist and that's never going to change. Some people say the word feminist with more bile than they would with "fraudster, rapist, thief even pedophile" and it low-key amuses me, because isn't that madness? Plus religion is incredibly problematic but it hasn't stopped people from identifying with their religion. So why should it stop me?

Also let me just add that if feminist equals misandrist then put me down twice because listen, I will not love whom/what I fear.

[Althena]

Saw this video today and thought it belongs on this thread.

"I have heard people say I believe in Women's rights but I don't believe in feminism. My recommendation is you shut up!

Because many times you separate these things because you want to choose which rights you feel women should have access to. Please be gone!

 

 

[Modd]

I hate how feminism has been twisted and its so unrecognizable; its getting harder to identify as a feminist. I'm not even talking about what the patriarchy has twisted it to be, I'm talking about the harm that those who actually identify as feminists have done to the movement. The arguments of some of these self-identifying feminists are appalling and gives me a headache. 

My arguments are the same as any other original feminist but no I dont identity as a feminist. Its not because I dont want to be seen as a man-hater, always-angry blah blah blah person. Rather, it is because there is so much noise within the feminist community; I want to step out of all that and still state my views to be heard.

[Hawken]

2 hours ago, Modd said:

I hate how feminism has been twisted and its so unrecognizable; its getting harder to identify as a feminist. I'm not even talking about what the patriarchy has twisted it to be, I'm talking about the harm that those who actually identify as feminists have done to the movement. The arguments of some of these self-identifying feminists are appalling and gives me a headache. 

My arguments are the same as any other original feminist but no I dont identity as a feminist. Its not because I dont want to be seen as a man-hater, always-angry blah blah blah person. Rather, it is because there is so much noise within the feminist community; I want to step out of all that and still state my views to be heard.

Feminism has core values. You can say you are a feminist and when asked about the noise, outrightly say "I don't stand for that, that's noise, that's not at all what feminism is about". Because there's not one community without noise. Or division (unless it's a cult😐). Refusing to use the tag is lending a voice albeit unintentionally to people who think the movement is unnecessary and "doing too much".

I feel like adding disclaimer that I'm all for living and let living 😂

 

[Modd]

37 minutes ago, Hawken said:

Feminism has core values. You can say you are a feminist and when asked about the noise, outrightly say "I don't stand for that, that's noise, that's not at all what feminism is about". Because there's not one community without noise. Or division (unless it's a cult😐). Refusing to use the tag is lending a voice albeit unintentionally to people who think the movement is unnecessary and "doing too much".

I feel like adding disclaimer that I'm all for living and let living 😂

 

I dont think not identifying automatically lends a voice to the other side. Its just a label. If I feel the label has been muddied, I'll drop that label but retain my sentiments to the cause of equality and ending the patriarchy.

[Hawken]

16 minutes ago, Modd said:

I dont think not identifying automatically lends a voice to the other side. Its just a label. If I feel the label has been muddied, I'll drop that label but retain my sentiments to the cause of equality and ending the patriarchy.

But it does and that's why I said unintentionally. Because you become someone for them to point to and say "aha, a woman! A woman who isn't a feminist! Because she gets it!". They really don't care as to why you aren't using the label. So long as you don't, you fit their narrative.

Again, tell me one community or movement that doesn't have noise?

Even woman is a label that has been muddled. But you can't drop it or disassociate from it, can you? You are literally stuck with it 😐 That's how I think it should be with feminism. If it matters enough to you, own the label and navigate it's complexities because nothing is perfect.

[Modd]

56 minutes ago, Hawken said:

But it does and that's why I said unintentionally. Because you become someone for them to point to and say "aha, a woman! A woman who isn't a feminist! Because she gets it!". They really don't care as to why you aren't using the label. So long as you don't, you fit their narrative.

Again, tell me one community or movement that doesn't have noise?

Even woman is a label that has been muddled. But you can't drop it or disassociate from it, can you? You are literally stuck with it 😐 That's how I think it should be with feminism. If it matters enough to you, own the label and navigate it's complexities because nothing is perfect.

Yeah I knew you'd whip the " woman as a label" argument out.

See, the label " woman" matters to me enough to reclaim it and individualize it; because we go way back.

I hold no such sentiments or allegiances with the label "feminist".

Something someone somewhere somehow will always try to push you to fit their narrative and their arguments.

And if someone says " she's not a feminist because she gets it" then that person is a foolish person. Me identifying as a feminist would not change their mind on the issue of equality and ending the patriarchy.

So I'm not going to label myself something I'm not comfortable with just to help add to numbers and popular opinion of "all women should be feminists".

Ok so I identify and call myself feminist. I attend the meeting that Chimamanda called where she's distributing T-shirt to everyone and babies for the men-haters amongst us. This somehow changes things and moves the cause forward?

Real arguments and real discussions on core issues move the cause forward, not labels.

 

[Hawken]

18 minutes ago, Modd said:

I hold no such sentiments or allegiances with the label "feminist"

So I'm not going to label myself something I'm not comfortable with just to help add to numbers and popular opinion of "all women should be feminists".

Ok so I identify and call myself feminist. I attend the meeting that Chimamanda called where she's distributing T-shirt to everyone and babies for the men-haters amongst us. This somehow changes things and moves the cause forward?

Real arguments and real discussions on core issues move the cause forward, not labels.

 

Okay. So let's call ourselves "people who have real arguments and real discussions on core issues to move the cause forward"? Is that more comfortable?

And it's your choice to not label yourself as something you aren't comfortable with. Fair enough. Just remember that you have that choice because there are women who did the work for it. Women who blew up places and went on marches and were extremely violent. So much so they were labeled suffragettes and militant. I presume that label must have made a lot of people uncomfortable.

Oh, to be called a militant 😣...

Still, it was a label they owned because every other thing is a distraction. Every. Other. Thing. Is. A. Distraction.

And I know I've said it several times but I will say it again. It's impossible to exist outside of labels. Even the decision to not label yourself is also label.

So when you go for a brunch with " people who have real arguments and real discussions on core issues to move the cause forward" and then say I believe in what you believe but I refuse the label that encapsulates what we believe in and are fighting for because it makes me uncomfortable; you have made it about you and about asthetics. It's not supposed to look or feel good. It's supposed to get the work done.

Again, I believe in live and let live 😐.

Also maybe you feel no allegiance to the word feminist because you haven't worked for it? And you haven't worked for it because the bulk of the work has been done already by militant suffragettes and feminists. So now all we really have are discussions. Discussions that we can skip in and out of as we see please.

 

[Modd]

26 minutes ago, Hawken said:

Okay. So let's call ourselves "people who have real arguments and real discussions on core issues to move the cause forward"? Is that more comfortable?

And it's your choice to not label yourself as something you aren't comfortable with. Fair enough. Just remember that you have that choice because there are women who did the work for it. Women who blew up places and went on marches and were extremely violent. So much so they were labeled suffragettes and militant. I presume that label must have made a lot of people uncomfortable.

Oh, to be called a militant 😣...

Still, it was a label they owned because every other thing is a distraction. Every. Other. Thing. Is. A. Distraction.

And I know I've said it several times but I will say it again. It's impossible to exist outside of labels. Even the decision to not label yourself is also label.

So when you go for a brunch with " people who have real arguments and real discussions on core issues to move the cause forward" and then say I believe in what you believe but I refuse the label that encapsulates what we believe in and are fighting for because it makes me uncomfortable; you have made it about you and about asthetics. It's not supposed to look or feel good. It's supposed to get the work done.

Again, I believe in live and let live 😐.

Also maybe you feel no allegiance to the word feminist because you haven't worked for it? And you haven't worked for it because the bulk of the work has been done already by militant suffragettes and feminists. So now all we really have are discussions. Discussions that we can skip in and out of as we see please.

 

Another lengthy reply @hawken. Here we go again... 🙄

I agree that labels are needed. They help describe a group of persons. I have nothing against you claiming whatever label you want and you should also allow me to choose to not be labelled. And I'm not going to any such brunches; thats not where my interests lie. And nice that you mentioned aesthetics. To me, aesthetics is exactly what the word "feminism" and "feminist" is nowadays. Twitter and Instagram bios now have FEMINIST so that you'll see their woke and "with it". you can't even tell the difference between the real fighters and the superficial ones.

"women who did the work....". Are you trying to guilt me? Do you feel I'm looking down on the struggles the originators went through?

these women fought for the right of equality and agency as women. They were not fighting for the right to be called feminists so it does not make sense to me why that "guilt trip" is being brought into your argument. It would be permissible if I actually cast aspersions on these women and the things they did.  

Your last paragraph, again with the guilt trip. Urgh. See, everyone has a right to choose what side they want to be on so far their decision does not restrict the freedom of others. You keep bringing up "the struggle" and "labels"; there are women who want to hand over all their money to their husbands and be housewives. You seem like the type that would tell them to go get a job because someone fought for them to have a right to earn... C'mon, actually live and let live.

To each their own abeg. All these epistles over the fact that I dont label myself feminist. Not that I dont support the cause, but that I dont want to identity with the label. Geez.

I stayed this long because its you but, alas, the argument is starting to bore me as we are going round in circles.

This is my last input on this. 

*drops mic* 

[Althena]

I genuinely enjoyed this route taken by @Modd and @Hawken as I genuinely feel that you're both right...

I always like to compare different struggles with color and racism because it always brings the issue back home and makes it personal, so here goes:

Modd: Imagine being a black person and refusing to publicly identify as such because it makes life uncomfortable... kinda like OJ Simpson. But on the other hand, I agree with not wearing a tag just for the sake of wearing it. Both can sit side by side because there aren't always clear answers.

Hawkeen: It's important to call a spade a spade. Because if Modd believes in the core of feminism, then she is a feminist right? Including the importance of politically claiming this position because it is so hated/heated. But on the other hand, does it make sense to push a label on someone simply for the sake of it? To guilt people into what they find uncomfortable? And what do we do with people like Simi who claim to be feminist and yet are homophobic? So many conundrums really...

For me personally, the issue is more black and white and less gray. Choosing to identify publicly as a feminist is very important, just as choosing to be queer loudly. So many people cannot, therefore I must.

As my favourite quote says  "I am a feminist. I've been female for a long time now. It'd be stupid not to be on my own side." ~Maya Angelou.

[Modd]

2 hours ago, Althena said:

:

Modd: Imagine being a black person and refusing to publicly identify as such because it makes life uncomfortable... kinda like OJ Simpson. But on the other hand, I agree with not wearing a tag just for the sake of wearing it. Both can sit side by side because there aren't always clear answers.

 

Its not the same thing as identifying as black. Totally different. Being labelled black is a given at anytime, Being labelled woman is a given at any time.

The label feminist is NOT a given, I might change my mind or what feminisms stands for can change and be misused (as is the case now). Thats why I choose to not take that label to heart as you both are. I'm not doing away with the label because its uncomfortable. Some things within feminism, I dont agree with even. So why would I want to lose control of my individuality on certain issues by just pandering to the status quo of identifying as feminist (because its the right/easy thing to do help the cause)? Heck no.

You wear it with pride and that's admirable but I chose to remain flexible on that label. I dare say it empowers me to be unlabelled than to be labelled.

[Althena]

My dearest, wonderful, lovely @Modd, it seems we have gotten to the heart of the matter...

7 minutes ago, Modd said:

Some things within feminism, I dont agree with even.

Completely understandable and valid why you wouldn't want to identify with a label or position you don't agree with...

[Modd]

2 minutes ago, Althena said:

My dearest, wonderful, lovely @Modd, 

Awww, stop... You'll make a grown woman blush. 😌

(Dont stop)